A discussion on Time or ABSENCE of Time

[Garry]

Based on a comment by Natale

It seems that we are always running but never getting very far, and before we know it too much time has gone by. I often wonder if this only happens here.

Just to answer your question:

No its not just the US

That disease is in Canada also

Garry

[Garry]

Using the above dialogue to start this thread , Id like to open a discussion on the

" Absence of Time " that so many NDE story tellers speak of .................

Then I would like to ask a question

If there is an absence of time in an NDE, then how is it ? , " that so many people returning from an NDE are told "

" Its not Your Time "

Lets get some input on this

[LifeReview]

The Greeks have two words for time: Chronos and Kairos

Chronos = clock-time: Let's meet at 7 o'clock

Kairos = appropriate-time: He's upset. It's not the right TIME to tell him.

[Garry]

The Greeks have two words for time: Chronos and Kairos

Chronos = clock-time: Let's meet at 7 o'clock

Kairos = appropriate-time: He's upset. It's not the right TIME to tell him.

I do appreciate you jumping in on this Misha

BUT Grin

Your answer could effectively kill any discussion that I was trying to get going .........

Good answer though

[dnix71]

When I go to Google translate it gives chronos and hora depending on how I phrase the statement. I think hora (ὥρα) is actually the common word most used because the New Testament has Jesus telling people on occasion that His hour had not yet come.

http://biblehub.com/greek/5610.htm

It seems in Greek you get an hour. Here in America you only get 15 minutes in the spotlight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_minutes_of_fame

[Natalie]

Using the above dialogue to start this thread , Id like to open a discussion on the

" Absence of Time " that so many NDE story tellers speak of .................

Then I would like to ask a question

If there is an absence of time in an NDE, then how is it ? , " that so many people returning from an NDE are told "

" Its not Your Time "

Lets get some input on this

Thank you Garry, for introducing this topic of discussion.

I think this is a fascinating topic. For me time is a way of organizing the sequence of events. Here in this physical life, events happen before or after other events, these events don't happen all at once as those described in NEDs. In our physical form, we organize our lives around "time", on a sequential basis with our 5 senses and with our limited perceptions.
However, according to Einstein and the theory of relativity, he says that if you travel at the speed of light, you can travel anywhere in the universe instantaneously. So I wonder, if this is what those coming back from their NEDs are trying to tell us. If they are traveling at such speed, everything may be occurring instantly for them in the spirit world it could explain why for them, there is no time involved. I can't really comprehend Einsteins theory, but it sure sounds fascinating.

So, Garry, regarding your question about why people who have these NED experiences are told that it is not their time yet, when time does not exist on the other side, could it be that those on the other side are referring to that final specific moment when we experience time for the last time?

Natalie

[yemullin]

LOVE IT! "Time" is referred for us ( in the flesh ) Because we can't comprehend what they would mean without the reference. Because as you know time is so much a part of our lives here. I would love to hear from an NDER who had that experience and see if the word time was used or if it is just a feeling they are actually trying to put into word for us to understand. It seems that most of the experiencers are trying so hard to find words to convey their actual experience, they often claim that the words they use don't do the experience justice. Or aren't quite accurate anyway. Keep up the great conversations!

[Garry]

A long long time ago
in a far away land
another lifetime ago so it seams

I was riding in a car with my X mother in law driving
my pregnant X wife in the front seat
and I was in the back seat with my X brother in law

all of a sudden the mother in law screams

He going to hit us

At which point I looked out the front window to see a car leaving the other side of the medium and crossing the medium aimed right for us .

This all happened in slooooooooowwwwwwww motion . I saw the car leave the road, cross the medium and come right at us up to the point of when it collided with us head on .......

No one was hurt , but I still remember to this day and can still see the event happening in my head when I think about it ..........

Time has always been something that I can't seem to understand as to , sometimes it moves so fast and where did it go , and sometimes it takes forever to pass me by .

I really have no destination with this topic , just want to see where it leads us ........

So everyone ---- post away

Time waits for no one

Theres no time like the present
“There comes a time when the world gets quiet and the only thing left is your own heart. So you'd better learn the sound of it. Otherwise you'll never understand what it's saying.”
Just Listen

[centre]Various Other Quotes About Time[/centre]

[yemullin]

Garry, I am so glad to hear that no one was injured in the accident! And it really is a weird phenom how things can seem to speed up or slow down. Same thing happened to me when an oncoming Fed Ex ground truck slid through a stop sign. I could really see the drivers expression and had time to think...oh no...my new van! Then....oh no... my body! Weird! No one was hurt but my van was totaled and pushed up the curb and into a telephone pole.
Another interesting phenom for me is how our bodies can know to wake up a minute before the alarm goes off. Or the dryer is just shutting off as I walk down the stairs. ( convenient ) These seem to happen with out any rhyme or reason, People say it is our body clock but how the heck does that work if I go to bed at all different times but wake up just before the alarm. Even if I set it for a different time!? It doesn't happen all the time but often enough to be strange! Ok that's my little "time" story.

Yvonne

[dnix71]

People construct reality in their minds from samples taken by their sense organs at about 30 times a second. Time dilation under stress may occur if the brain supresses everything but vision and oversamples vision briefly. The body's internal clock doesn't change speeds, but the mind has extra data to process in the same period, so time seems to slow down.

[ano1]

During my nde it seemed as if time did not exist. I feel like it is just here as a convenience for us.

[Natalie]

Ano1,

Your comment is so interesting to me. I know that most NDE's express the same view about the concept of time, as you do. And I am trying to imagine how that could be. If events are timeless and don't happen in a linear form there, does it mean that you can go back and forth between events and re-experience them as many times as you want? In any sequence that you want? When for instance, you see or communicate with someone on the other side, and later you experience another vision or any other experience also on the other side, wouldn't they be occurring in a chronological order? And once an experience occurs, doesn't it become a past experience? Here in our physical form we think of time as past, present and future, is this not the case on the other side?

Sorry if I sound confusing, I'm just so fascinated by what I read about time from so many NDE's, and I would love to understand it better. Do you have any input about this?

Natalie

[ano1]

That all makes perfect sense to me.
I was only gone about 12 or so minutes. I was not allowed to return with all the knowledge I was given while there. But, I do know that time did not seem to exist. I think yes if someone wanted to go back and visit something it would probably be possible. I didn't spend enough time over there to answer definitively. But, there was not at all like here. So much awareness and knowledge is simply present there, leaving one with nothing to wonder about, if I thought about something the answer was already clear, apparent and made complete sense.

[Garry]

So much awareness and knowledge is simply present there, leaving one with nothing to wonder about, if I thought about something the answer was already clear, apparent and made complete sense.

If no time exists and

all you need to is think about something to know it

It kinda takes the challenge out of learning something

The lack of time , has fascinated me for so long , but without time , instant knowledge, no physical body to get drunk and impaired, it seems hard to comprehend being able to appreciate something if you cant put a time stamp to it.

Its such a hard concept to understand or comprehend.

This is why I started this thread to see where this leads us

[Natalie]

Ano1, from your experience what do you think spirits do? What is our purpose on the other side, do we accomplish anything there? Or do we just simply exist and experience the love and peace. Is there progress in the spirit world? Are there challenges there. Forgive me if I am asking too many questions and you may not have the answer to. It all sounds so wonderful there, it makes sense that we have a bigger purpose than this physical existence, and it would also make sense to me that what we accomplish here would serve us there somehow.

Natalie

[ano1]

Natalie,
I wish I could answer your questions but I cannot. I do know that I did not really want to return here.
The love, caring and acceptance was so intoxicatingly wonderful...
I was told, "It's all about love."
But, I was also told, 'suicide is not your choice to make'. So please don't get any such ideas.

[Natalie]

Thank you for your reply Ano,

No worries, suicide is not something that I have ever contemplated. Although I am exited and curious about the after life, I do love this physical life very much and I intend to enjoy it and make the most of it as long as I'm here.

I appreciate your information, so great to talk to someone who has actually had the NDE.
Natalie

[Janka]

​Does exist "infinite and unconditional love" here on earth by all means.I and my dearest Jan,two of us are the evidence of such kind of love.Divine and human belongs together.Many people return to this life as they were really wishful thinking of their loved ones,but unfortunately not every one has the possibility of choice to return here.If I only could I would give my life to save him.The love is all.

Janka

[Marguy]

What is our purpose on the other side, do we accomplish anything there? Or do we just simply exist and experience the love and peace. Is there progress in the spirit world?

Natalie I never had a NDE, but I have translated so many NDEs and from what I recall, some experiencers told about many other dimensions of existence and of learning. We probably will never get bored. As far as I understand it, this state of being is a state, where what we think about is realizing immediately.
I came to understand that there are certain things we only can learn when we are here on earth, and one of those things is dealing with time, not getting everything we want immediately. Also learning about what pain and misery is and therefore getting a better understanding of compassion. In a realm where there is no pain and constant happiness this could be somewhat difficult.
Therefore my understanding is so that we are spirit beings living a short while here on earth and trying to fulfill the goals we set ourselves before we came here.

If I only could I would give my life to save him.

If you had done this it would have been him suffering now.
I'm sure that your Jan is saved already.
It's your heart that is hurting because of the loss of the love of your life. And it is normal to have long periods of sadness because of this. But have you ever thought about him? That he maybe cannot go on in the other realm because your sadness is keeping him around you?
When we accept the idea that we choose our fate before we come to this planet, then maybe you too agreed to experience the misery that you are going through now, and it is maybe your learning goal to cope with this and learn to believe that you will see him again after your passing over.
Ich wish you all a nice day

[Janka]

To Marguy!

Who are you to judge the relation between me and my beloved Jan?
I disagree with your opinions by all means!
I do not wish to contact me or answer to my mail anymore.
I stop answering.

Janka

[Natalie]

Marguy,
Thank you for your reply in answer to my questions. Your comments make perfect sense to me, very interesting, wise and insightful. How can we learn patience in a world where everything we want is answered instantly. How can we learn about compassion in a world where there is no suffering, only happiness. And how can we learn about love if we know nothing about compassion. This is very good food for thought.

[Marguy]

Janka,

I'm sorry if my comment hurt you. It wasn't meant to do this. And it is not a judgement about your relation with Jan, as I'm aware that all our relations with loved ones will last for 'ever', wether in this world or in the other one.
Maybe I chose the wrong words to say this. So please forgive me if I hurt you.

Marguy

[LifeReview]

The idea, true or not, about volunteering for troubles and learning (between lives) is very hard to accept when we are going through loss. Also, the idea about "tears holding people back" is also hard when we need to grieve.

In this field, there are many theories, and it's hard to say what's right.

Janka and Marguy,
I read what Marguy wrote as a bystander, and I understood that it came from a good person without being critical, but.... when we are under stress and the words aren't perfectly chosen, misunderstandings can arise. I know I have chosen the wrong words sometimes. I don't think Marguy was criticising, but rather saying that it's very hard to predict what would happen if we gave our lives for someone else. Janka, it is clear that you are full of love for your Jan. I think it's great that you write about your love here. Marguy is also full of love, and has translated many NDEs. I think this was a misunderstanding of words, not hearts. Let's give it a chance again; I admire both of you.

[Janka]

Janka,

I'm sorry if my comment hurt you. It wasn't meant to do this. And it is not a judgement about your relation with Jan, as I'm aware that all our relations with loved ones will last for 'ever', wether in this world or in the other one.
Maybe I chose the wrong words to say this. So please forgive me if I hurt you.

Marguy

I do forgive you and wish you all the best in your life.

Janka

[Marguy]

Thank you Janka.

This relieves me. Also wish you only the best.
Marguy

[Therese]

I didn't experienced time during the nde.
Amazing!

[DennisMe]

Speaking of time, you just "Resurrected" an old thread.

I think it works like this.
If you have 0 dimensions you can have just a single point (mathematically a point has no length or width or height).
Have one dimension and you can get an infinite number of points (we normally call that a line).
Have two dimensions and you get an infinite number of lines (plane).
Have three dimensions and you get an infinite number of planes (ie: a space).
Have four and you end up with an infinite number of spaces, (becomes hard to visualize) etc.
Time is just a way of experiencing possible spaces in a way that is compatible with our organism.
We appear to be stuck in time because the physical processes that drive our brains are not instantaneous. Think of folding and unfolding proteins, propagation of chemicals (hormones) and electrical signals. The moment we let go of that (bodily) dependency we no longer need time and are free to perceive and experience along any 'axis' not just a linear one but also along any 'arbitrary' path.
Thats a sketch of the direction my thoughts on time take me.

[Therese]

Speaking of time, you just "Resurrected" an old thread.

I think it works like this.
If you have 0 dimensions you can have just a single point (mathematically a point has no length or width or height).
Have one dimension and you can get an infinite number of points (we normally call that a line).
Have two dimensions and you get an infinite number of lines (plane).
Have three dimensions and you get an infinite number of planes (ie: a space).
Have four and you end up with an infinite number of spaces, (becomes hard to visualize) etc.
Time is just a way of experiencing possible spaces in a way that is compatible with our organism.
We appear to be stuck in time because the physical processes that drive our brains are not instantaneous. Think of folding and unfolding proteins, propagation of chemicals (hormones) and electrical signals. The moment we let go of that (bodily) dependency we no longer need time and are free to perceive and experience along any 'axis' not just a linear one but also along any 'arbitrary' path.
Thats a sketch of the direction my thoughts on time take me.

I think you are right.

[Natalie]

Hi Dennis,

What a brilliant explanation of time! I like your theory.
I will give it some thought.

I have always been fascinated with time, also Einstein's theory of relativity, although I don't claim to understand.

Thank you
Natalie

[therose]

Using the above dialogue to start this thread , Id like to open a discussion on the

" Absence of Time " that so many NDE story tellers speak of .................

Then I would like to ask a question

If there is an absence of time in an NDE, then how is it ? , " that so many people returning from an NDE are told "

" Its not Your Time "

Lets get some input on this

I realize this is an old discussion but it is a concept I've been pondering too.

As you said, Garry, many NDE experiencers say they are told, "It's not your time." Many NDE experiencers have also said they were asked if they wanted to stay or go back to their bodies/life. Even though a majority chose to stay they are told, "It's not your time" and sent back anyway. What's up with that? Why give them a choice to stay or go back then send them back against their wishes?

Of course, we'd never hear from those whose choice to stay was granted because they would be dead rather than a NDE experiencer. But why give them a choice at all, why bother with that question in the first place?

And just who is it making these "choices" for us? Some call it "God", others call him/her some supreme being, angels, etc. making these decisions. But how can we die when it's not our time only to be sent back? I mean, what is going on? Did some clerk in the "Time/Not Time" office screw up and zap someone before their time? Are these beings that send people back against their wishes some kind of damage control, PR reps? Can Heaven make mistakes? (I realize I am using earth-bound, human terms to ask questions but there is a point if you read between the lines.)

Again, I am not expecting answers from anyone just seeking further discussion and ideas - bouncing thoughts off each other. I am working on getting a better, more accurate picture of what people are experiencing when they go to this realm/dimension/whatever and working on a way to recognize how NDE's are filtered back and forth between here and there through cultural, spiritual, psychophysiological models, i.e. perceptions.

[DennisMe]

"omnis traductor traditor"

That is: "Every translator is a traitor" is a phrase handed down from the classical era.

When talking about NDEs there is a serious problem because we can never do justice to the original experience when using language. It simply is not possible. So everyone who tries 'betrays' the original meaning. Not that that is a problem as long as the 'audience' understands that there are serious issues of interpretation and loss of meaning involved.

A question implies either a lack of knowledge, a decision or a rhetorical construct. I think the lack of knowledge we experience here and our little egos deciding things for ourselves all the time are only possible when separated (subjectively) from the Source. What we call free will is only truly free when 'detached' from the Source and therefore may potentially result in a sub-optimal decision being made. I don't think I could willingly stand in the light and at the same time make a decision that is not in alignment with the Light's intentions.

I believe there is a hierarchy in free will. It starts with the most fundamental question possible (as far I'm concerned). Do you want to do the right thing? The earth experience is, for me at least, essential in order to find my own way, my own voice and create my own personality. We are all trying to create ourselves and in so doing enriching the tapestry of creation and adding to the already infinite variety of experience.

So I think the question, when asked by the Source is rhetorical by nature. The source must know the answer because it already knows everything. It is a question asked out of respect. Because the source, who to me is God, loves us unconditionally and therefore respects us for who we are. Having said that, I am aware of NDEs where the person is forcibly brought back to material life against their will. I wouldn't want to be the judge of that but I can't imagine it is done for any other reason than with our ultimate best interests in mind!

As to whether the Source or the Light IS God, God is everything in everything and therefore cannot be objectified or limited into any single phenomenon. These features are all part of what God 'does' by gods own nature. To me, the true divine nature is Love. All NDEs that have noted this also agree on this point. People who have been inculturated with a very limited concept of what God is (like the classic "Old man with white beard and gold crown on huge jewel-studded throne in the clouds" and have an NDE might say that they did not encounter God, and they would be right! Because they did in fact not encounter what they think everyone means when talking about God (I mean; "Mr Beard"). On the other hand, if they were already familiar with more philosophical images of God then they might say they did encounter God. Even if the experience had been the same. Again it comes down to translation and interpretation, we cannot escape those concepts on this earth because they are integral to communication 'in the flesh'.

[Garry]

After reading Dennis's reply which make a lot of sense and using this paragraph to express my point

When talking about NDEs there is a serious problem because we can never do justice to the original experience when using language. It simply is not possible. So everyone who tries 'betrays' the original meaning. Not that that is a problem as long as the 'audience' understands that there are serious issues of interpretation and loss of meaning involved.

Time is a man made concept that explains in a mechanical sense ( a clock ) the rotation of the Earth around the Sun .

One rotation around the sun is broken down in segments such as hours,minutes and seconds for the benefit of understanding what point in the daily rotation of the planet Earth is at. ( what time it is )

Weeks months and years are just an accumulation of these segments of the daily rotation. This has all been done and created for the benefit of Man to understand the ( Time of Day ) that they are experiencing right now or being able to put a reference to a earlier or later point in the rotation of the Earth around the sun.


If you lived on a space ship that had no reference to rotating around something, then you would also have no reference to Time as we know it .....

You would sleep when your tired and wake when your ready to wake. In a very short while you would have no concept of what day or hour it really is or would you care


Now going back to Dennis's explanation

When talking about NDEs there is a serious problem because we can never do justice to the original experience when using language. It simply is not possible. So everyone who tries 'betrays' the original meaning. Not that that is a problem as long as the 'audience' understands that there are serious issues of interpretation and loss of meaning involved.

It could be as simple as : when the NDEer is told, " It's Not Your Time ", It is no different than us as an English speaking group, looking at Egyptian hieroglyphics and knowing that it means something , but not having any idea what it means.

When the NDEer reports back to the worlds population with there story, it is the only way they can express ( as an example )

that , "The task they agreed to do when they were granted physical life ", has not been completed yet so therefore, "Its Not Their Time", is the only way they can understand and communicate it in words that everybody else can understand.

Going back to living on a spaceship and having no reference to TIME as we know it, ( unless MISSION CONTROL who launched the spaceship originally put a clock on your dashboard ), when you finally come back to Earth you would have no idea as to what DAY, Month or Year it is , in the Human sense .....

[Rey]

"It's Not Your Time" might actually be a (ie, albeit telepathic) figure of speech in any NDE.

Alternate interpretations might be, "It's not your turn" or "time here, is not the (space) time from which you have not yet irrevocably separated".


The notion of time being different or even somewhat non-existent seems able to be quite illustrative to the average person by citing the concept/experience of "FLOW".

Most everyone, at least once during their life, has experienced "FLOW". Basically this experience is described as a form of being outside of time which can happen when one is lost in deep thought or concentration such as often occurs when one intensely focuses during accomplishment of a task or project (eg, "I looked up from what I was doing and saw that the clock had moved ahead 30 minutes of which I was totally unaware as it felt like only seconds had passed ").

It is my understanding that Einstein's relativity does not technically prohibit time proceeding backward (at least via the equations).

In addition, with regard to order of events, special relativity allows that different observers can have opposite ideas regarding the ordering of the occurrence of events (eg, a measurement). This could happen depending on their motion in different frames of reference and the observers need have no relation to those who are actually performing the measurements!

[Marguy]

Oh yes time. Its an interesting topic.
I have been thinking about it some time ago.
So I'm trying to explain what I came upon. I never studied physics or mathematics but I try to go through a problem in going through the process and trying to understand it.
So, as far as I understood by reading about the big bang, at the beginning there was no time. During the big bang, time and space (spacetime) have been created simultaniously.
Now here my ideas.
In order to initiate a big bang, the needed energy must have been enormous, but as there was no time before the big bang, so this energy logically must have been an energy that was existing outside of time, it was not underlying time, so it must have been from a completely different dimension. Then creation started and in order to create particles, space was needed, as only in space matter can form and interact, and once space was in play, time automatically was also in play, because interaction was implying distance and distance implies velocity and time. The more distant a star is, the longer time its light needed to come to us. It was an absolute necessity to create the particles in a dual way, attraction and repulsion (love and hate?). Attraction was needed to keep them strongly enough together that they wouldn't fly apart, and repulsion was needed to keep them far enough apart that they could interact and not collaps like it happens in black holes. After all, science confirms that inside of matter there is more void than matter( 99,9999999.........% of void).
Now this original energy is still the basis on which everything that exists was built up (is building up), so I also think that in matter there is still a deep connection to the (out of time, timeless) quality of this energy.
Now we can call this original energy (God, Consciousness, Love, Light, Creator, All that is....) or just simply energy.
As we are all part of this energy, and always will remain part of it we will also have a part of timelessness in ourselves.
So on the day when our timeless part is set free, time is not existing anymore for us.
As for the NDErs when they are told that it is not their time, it will always be difficult to know how they got this information, if they were told in those terms, or if they were given the concept of it. Their problem is to convey something that is very difficult to convey with earthly language. And as we grow up with the concept of time as a normal thing it is quite hard for us to conceive 'timelessness'.
I deliberately remained with this on a non spiritual path, but if one continues thinking deeper in this matter, it will fit very well with spiritual subjects, with energetic healing etc...
Hope didn't bore anybody.

[scottwUSA]

It's a great topic and I was one who was told it wasn't my time and I had to come back. I'd have things to endure and overcome with my health, yet I wouldn't be alone. Let me get back on this..

[therose]

I apologize for not replying or contributing for a while. My sister who had lung cancer became very ill and died in April so I have been distracted, traveling and grieving.

From my studies into high strangeness phenomena and phenomena in general, I have developed a process of analyzing information from the best sources possible in an effort to form a basic picture from the correlating data (that's a mouth full so I will explain later). I must admit I have been a scientist since my early teens and tend to automatically follow scientific methodology, as much as possible. My educational and professional background includes multiple degrees and many years as a research assistant at a major university. I am also a retired psychotherapist. Now I know some people do not like or trust "scientists" but I'm a different type of scientist so give me a chance before you burn me at the stake.

When researching phenomena you can either believe everything experiencers say they experienced, believe only some experiencers or none. When all you have to go on is a person's description of their experiences, you must always remember it is only from their perspective and filtered through their educational, religious and cultural backgrounds. Therefore, the best way to analyze only self-reported experiences is to correlate the best data collected from many self-reported experiences similar in nature. But, if there are any kinds of measurable, scientific data to go with an experiencer's self-report then the reliability of these self-reports increases. In other words, if a person dies on an operating table, declared clinically dead by a doctor, while connected to various system monitors and is revived then wakes up describing a near death experience, these cases become the top or best case studies. Doctor and other hospital staff reports would be included in the study. When I say the "best" data, I'm referring to those NDE's in which the individual was declared clinically dead by a doctor or paramedic, while also connected to various monitors and the individual has good credibility. The next "best" data would come from someone declared clinically dead by a doctor or paramedic only, with good credibility but no data from monitors then the next best data, etc.

Now I am NOT saying self-reported NDE's without a doctor or paramedic declaring the individual clinically dead or without correlating monitor information are false. From a researcher's point of view if you want to collect the "best" data, you start with the most reliable, most documented information.

In reference to NDE's, I am approaching the subject as if some of these are real experiences that can be studied and analyzed as we would any other subject rather than merely relegating it all to some mystical, mythical, religious or magic belief about the unknown. There appears to be overwhelming data that something is going on and the fact that so many people from around the world have had such similar NDE's for centuries indicates a subject we need to take seriously and conduct extensive, scientific studies to gather as much information as possible. So when I ask questions about various aspects described by those who have had Near Death Experiences I am approaching the topic from a literal sense.

Back to the topic of this discussion, when I wonder what's up with the "it's not your time yet", I'm asking anyone interested to help explore and extrapolate what that may mean in a literal sense rather than a philosophical or religious interpretation. If people can die "before their time" then what might that tell us about that realm and the various beings encountered? Using the best information and correlations between hundreds to thousands of NDE's, what picture does this paint about life after death and where we go when our bodies die?

It's kinda like compiling the information one might obtain by visiting another planet or dimension and returning to Earth to describe what they saw, heard and felt there. It is a waste of time to philosophize whether or not we can study NDE's due to difficulties in communication, finding the right words or understanding time. It's a given fact - we are humans trying to explore an unknown. However, it does not mean we have to throw in the towel and just quit. We can only do the best we can with what we have and search for the closest words we have to translate and interpret the information.

If we can die before it's our time, does that mean whomever is in charge over there does not control when a person dies but they do have the power to send them back? Without assuming some all powerful holy being or beings are in charge, maybe this means things happen that are random accidents or events that cause the body to die and eject the spirit, soul, whatever but the inhabitants of...over there....can send that spirit, soul, whatever back to the body before it is too late and the body begins to decay and officially die. If we can die before our time then that puts a wrench in the belief (assumption) that everything is predestined or controlled by a greater power because dying before our time could not happen if everything was under control.

Or...maybe it is only we who believe everything is under control when it is not. If we are some kinds of energy type beings who come into these "Earthsuits" to explore this realm, like we wear spacesuits to explore space or another planet, maybe things go wrong with our Earthsuits and force us to exit and return to our original realm a little early. And maybe we can be sent back and the Earthsuit repaired under certain circumstances. We have no way of knowing if people actually die before their time because...they die. The only testimonies we have are from those who died "before their time" but were sent back. It may be a little disconcerting to think our supreme beings may not be as supreme as we imagine but if you put it in another context of being here to explore or experience this physical realm, it's not so bad.

I'm not saying this is or is not the way it is, I am just extrapolating based on the information we have to go on. We must strive to think outside the box and outside of our belief systems if we are going to explore and understand things we have never explored or experienced before. Studying phenomena is like walking a tight rope following where the information leads and remaining balanced without falling into the fringe on one side or blinded by our belief systems on the other.

BTW - My ID is "The Rose" because I live in Texas, aka - The Yellowrose Of Texas.

[velco]

May I suggest that in an NDE, the absence of time is an absence of the sense of psychological time. Most people have an internal biological "clock" that gives them a sense of time passing. Perhaps when the biological clock is not working (as in an NDE) there is an absence of this sense of time passing, so the person experiences the NDE as having an absence of time. But time still occurs in the sense that change is experienced in an NDE. Perhaps an infant also may not experience a sense of time as an adult does. Also, "it's not your time" seems to be another way of saying "you're not ready yet". It may not have anything to do with time as such. PS: I have never experienced an NDE, but I have experienced lucid dreams, and in those there is not the same sense of time as when awake.

[DennisMe]

Interesting point on the biological clock.
However, a lot of NDE experiences also claim 'everything happened at once' which would seem to go even further and break up the sequential nature of time. I honestly couldn't begin to define time without that fundamental property. A question like 'did time seem to seed up or slow down' doesn't touch on the sequential nature of time, but 'everything seemed to be happening at once' does.

[DennisMe]

TheRose, sorry to hear about your sister. Good thing death isn't the end!
I really hope thinking outside the box gains more traction in the scientific world! In real life I'm afraid "Science advances one funeral at a time"...
I also wrote "All translators are traitors" in my post above. I hope you didn't take that to mean I was against scientific research in NDEs! Far from it.

[Marguy]

I apologize for not replying or contributing for a while. My sister who had lung cancer became very ill and died in April so I have been distracted, traveling and grieving.

The rose
Please accept my condolences for the death of your sister. It's always difficult to lose a loved one.

Perhaps an infant also may not experience a sense of time as an adult does.

It is definitely so that children have another sense of time as adults and I can illustrate this by an event that happened when my son was three years old.
He went to a kindergarden where he stayed for the day and they were having an afternoon rest after lunch. And he complained at home saying that he wanted me to come and pick him up every day, and I told him that actually I always picked him up daily, but he was not convinced.
One day I had a doctors appointment for him in the afternoon and I picked him up while he was at his afternoon rest, and he was so happy that I finally had picked him up correctly, and then that was my 'aha' effect when I understood that each time that he went to his afternoon rest at the kindergarden, and woke up later on, he had been thinking that he had passed a whole night at the kindergarden, and he assumed that I only picked him up every second day.
So there I got my lesson about sense of time and it's differences.
It made clear to me at the time, that we adults are so used to the passing of time in a certain way, that we just assume that children do it in the same manner.

However, a lot of NDE experiences also claim 'everything happened at once' which would seem to go even further and break up the sequential nature of time.

Yes, I read several where the experiencers mentioned that they just put it in some sequence, in order to make their
account understandable for the reader, but that in fact everything happened at once.

[therose]

Oh yes time. Its an interesting topic.
So on the day when our timeless part is set free, time is not existing anymore for us.
As for the NDErs when they are told that it is not their time, it will always be difficult to know how they got this information, if they were told in those terms, or if they were given the concept of it. Their problem is to convey something that is very difficult to convey with earthly language. And as we grow up with the concept of time as a normal thing it is quite hard for us to conceive 'timelessness'.

In reading back over all the comments/replies, I think everyone is focusing on the concept of time while I became focused on the phrase, "It's not your time." The topic of this discussion did not compute because it seemed more a matter of physics for this realm than something we might encounter in a non-physical realm.

So to go with the "flow" of this discussion as much as I am able, as Marguy suggests, one wonders how were NDErs given the concept that it "was not their time"? If you think about it, if we leave our bodies behind then we also leave our brains and mouths behind with that body. We would not be able to communicate with our brains, mouths, vocal chords or air from our lungs. That only leaves us with a form of telepathy or some type of direct communication between ourselves and beings encountered after life.

Telepathic communications or direct thought transference would probably be clearer and instantly understood because it would be more detailed and may include imagery as well as words. Anyone who has ever experienced telepathy would know how this works. Therefore the communication could either be exactly as it was communicated or, as an adult might use Santa Claus to explain how the gifts got under the tree, the communicator could be saying, "It's not your time" as a simple way of explaining something we are not yet ready to comprehend. Trying to analyze the concept of time in this realm as compared to another realm may be a difficult and a near impossible task given what little data or information we have to go on.

As if death wasn't already quite abstract, trying to decipher the relativity of time is just...too time consuming (excuse the pun ).

[Garry]

In my earlier years I was obsessed with time as work and everything else evolved around time.


Now as I grow older and my attitudes have changed , Time is the last thing I think about . My boss gets fustrated with me as I never know what time it is , or the day of the week for that matter , and he is always ribbing me about it....

I just tell hime to " Send Me Home " if its a problem as I just don't care anymore about the Time controlled world .


Ill be to work when I get there and if its a problem , then send me home.....

[therose]

The rose
Please accept my condolences for the death of your sister. It's always difficult to lose a loved one.

Thank you for your condolences, Marguy.

[ano1]

TheRose,

I am very sorry about the loss of your sister.
A while ago, I too, lost a very close sister. In spite of knowing her to be in a wonderful place, the grief of the loss is at times very difficult.
Wishing you peace.

About the scientific aspect and proof of nde's. I personally have no interest in proof. Proof is not needed for me. I experienced it. There were no questions unanswered. There was absolutely no confusion about anything.
I think it would be wasteful use of ones time to bother looking for concrete evidence. I believe everything does happen as it should, and when and how it should. This is something I understood while 'gone' and I have returned with an inherent trust and knowing of the reality of the these things.
I know scientists have a need to prove things. But, when we get 'there', all is clearly understood...the mystery is solved, so I see no need for proving anything. To me, searching for such proof would take away from time to do important things, like caring for and loving one another.
I mean no disrespect with these comments. For me, an after existence is simply a fact.

[DennisMe]

Ano1, I understand your position. Once over the other side we will have no questions, so why bother. For me personally proof is not what I want. I know enough for myself because I have experienced enough to know.
What I do want, and want very much, is less needless suffering. A lot of suffering is out of our control, but there is a type of suffering that we (experiencers and others 'in the know') can relieve. Particularly with the poor folks who seem to never be able to experience the slightest piece of heaven in their lives. I consider myself lucky, privileged actually in this respect, and I want to help people by explaining such things at the afterlife, the unconditional forgiving Love of God for all that is. They need to know they are loved, they need to know their loved ones are still with us and they need proof to convince them. Lacking personal experience, proof is the next best thing IMHO.
So, yes, for an experiencer to seek proof is a waste of time, but to seek proof for those that need it is God's own work.
Anyway, that's how I see it.

[Garry]

So, yes, for an experiencer to seek proof is a waste of time, but to seek proof for those that need it is God's own work.
Anyway, that's how I see it.

Not being a Bible reader but I have glanced at many parts

Besides the 10 commandments is not the only thing that we are asked to do is

Have Faith

[DennisMe]

Hi Gary, I like to go above and beyond the call of duty...
For me its simply a variant of "love thy neighbour as oneself" I have received enough proof in my life, why shouldn't I pay it forward?

[therose]

TheRose,

I am very sorry about the loss of your sister.
A while ago, I too, lost a very close sister. In spite of knowing her to be in a wonderful place, the grief of the loss is at times very difficult.
Wishing you peace.

About the scientific aspect and proof of nde's. I personally have no interest in proof. Proof is not needed for me. I experienced it. There were no questions unanswered. There was absolutely no confusion about anything.
I think it would be wasteful use of ones time to bother looking for concrete evidence.

Ano1, sorry to hear about the loss of your sister. Although we may know they go to a better place we grieve not for them but for ourselves because we miss them.

Let me ask you a question, did your experience change your life in any way?

[therose]

I consider myself lucky, privileged actually in this respect, and I want to help people by explaining such things at the afterlife, the unconditional forgiving Love of God for all that is. They need to know they are loved, they need to know their loved ones are still with us and they need proof to convince them. Lacking personal experience, proof is the next best thing IMHO.

Exactly, DennisMe. Just because one searches for more scientific data to support life after death do not assume they need it themselves. What better way to change the world than to change the way we see ourselves and our relationship to this vast Universe - including all the dimensions and realms therin.

[ano1]

Dennis,

I understand and agree.
I was fortunate over the years, as a nurse, to offer end time reassurances. To me, it was a great privilege and I learned so much from dying people. When death is near, no material possession is valuable, everything comes down to real stuff conversation... it is the only thing that makes sense at that time.
Surprisingly, many elderly people already had an understanding. Many had a peace and somehow an understanding of their future and would often turn the tables and ask how I felt about afterlife, in an attempt to reassure me that they would be okay.

Therose,

Thanks, true words.

You asked if the experience changed my life in any way?
:D It has changed my life in so many ways. It colors my everyday. My experience happened when I was only fifteen, so it has become very difficult to clearly remember how my unfinished self was prior to my experience. I know I always did have a heart for the underdog, even as a child.
In those early years I needed to keep it to myself, because people were not at all accepting of such things. But, I was a different person...right away. I knew of a love within me, a stillness, a calm, a peacefulness, a feeling that everything is okay...even when it does not physically or materially seem to be so. This feeling has never left me.
I do at times get caught up in lifes trials and tribulations, yet, I 'know' that these things are not really so important.
In the early years I had a very difficult time being around large groups of people, and crowds were intolerable. I felt as if I could somehow sense peoples troubles, fears, worries, etc. It was as if I could 'read' them. It took years to learn to control or block out this awareness... sometimes it is still 'in my face' so to speak. I grocery shop late in the evening, when most people are home, because I can't take the distractions I often get from people. For whatever reason the store seems particularly full of meandering thoughts. I sense their troubles and I just need to leave. Other times I end up having a conversation with someone that goes beyond what normal people, who are strangers, would ever have a conversation about... sort of 'other directed' discussions. These kinds of encounters happen frequently and somehow I feel privileged to participate. But, I am often exhausted afterward.
When younger, I was a very shy person, but now am a very outgoing, generally fun and happy person. People seem to find me to be very approachable. I genuinely feel like no one is really a stranger.
There are so many differences. Some, I usually will not talk about.
My close friends tell me that I am not like other people. I am never sure what they mean by that and they never seem to really convey what they mean by it either.
I 'know' that I/we are not alone.
I know, intrinsically, that I am loved. I know that we 'all' are loved and valued greatly.

[hereandback]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but when I had my NDE, I was conscious of the fact that time, like I know it, did not exist. Further, the experience I had still unfolds even today. Since I was exposed to various situations during my NDE, in a place with no time, coming back with certain knowledge now unfolds in a linear fashion, because of the constraints of time here. The other aspect to this is when I crossed over, I essential left everything behind me, even my memories. I remember telling myself, "I'm finally home," not having any remembrance of the life I just left. It wasn't until a collage of my life presented before me that I remembered where I just came from, but didn't miss any of it. I bring up the lack of remembrance because people often ask me, "Why doesn't my loved one simply come back and speak with me?" The only analogy I can come up with is asking them if they had a loved one on the moon, could they just go and visit them any time they wanted to. Even though you can see the moon, can you get there right now? Of course the answer is no, unless there is a catalyst, or some sort of medium that can move the person from the earth to the moon. I think people do come back, but there are somehow “rules”, so the departed are unable to just return. Thoughts?

[ano1]

thereandback

The other aspect to this is when I crossed over, I essential left everything behind me, even my memories. I remember telling myself, "I'm finally home," not having any remembrance of the life I just left.

I too, lost the memories of my earthly home, at least temporarily. And, I was just fine with that...there was no sense of grief or worries about those I left behind...it was no longer important. I did remember, when presented with the question about whether or not I wanted to 'go back'. When I thought about going back, I instantly remembered my earthly life.

[hereandback]

I did remember, when presented with the question about whether or not I wanted to 'go back'.

Ano1, that's interesting when you say you were presented with the question about whether or not you wanted to go back. I've always been interested in that aspect of my NDE. The voice that asked me if I wanted to stay or return was both inside and outside of me. I couldn't tell the gender. The voice almost seemed neutral, in regard to caring or not caring about me. It was as if it didn't want to have any influence on my decision. Of course, I would really like to know who that voice belongs to.

[ano1]

hereandback: Ano1, that's interesting when you say you were presented with the question about whether or not you wanted to go back. I've always been interested in that aspect of my NDE. The voice that asked me if I wanted to stay or return was both inside and outside of me. I couldn't tell the gender. The voice almost seemed neutral, in regard to caring or not caring about me. It was as if it didn't want to have any influence on my decision. Of course, I would really like to know who that voice belongs to.

Mine was the same, except I felt the voice did care about me, but was (like you said) not wanting to influence my decision.
The voice, for me was not outwardly audible, but heard within my understanding. I think that voice belongs to love.
I feel a calmness, right now, just thinking about it.
Have you ever experienced the 'voice' back here on earth?

[hereandback]

Ano1, "Have you ever experienced the 'voice' back here on earth?"

No. I have not heard the voice back here. What I brought back with me are moments of my NDE, and what I experienced while on the other side, occurring in different moments throughout my life. I had my NDE at 11 and now I’m 45.I feel because I experienced no time where I was, some information I received can only be available here in linear fashion, because of the constraints of our time. How I try and describe this is when I had a collage of my life before me, during my NDE, I was able to see every picture at once. It was like a thousand TV screens before me, showing moments of my life up to that point. Here on earth, I would have to look at each TV screen one by one, because I am constricted by time. It really wasn't TV screens I saw, but that's the only way I know how to describe it. Like I'm sure you've experienced, trying to describe in words what I encountered is beyond adequate description with the vocabulary I have. When I try and tell people that what happened to me was more 'real' than the 'real' here, they just look at me perplexed. How does one describe 'more real'? Even as I write this, I struggle with trying to find the words to paint an accurate picture of what I saw, felt and heard. My mother-in-law passed away a couple years ago. Soon after, I had a dream that she was living in this magnificent apartment. I didn’t see her, but I knew she was there. I could see the layout of her residence and how elegant it was. Obviously, she was not living in an apartment, but that’s the only way my brain could interpret the information she was giving me. Recently, I had a dream that she left her apartment and moved on to a better place. Although my NDE was brief, there is so much I learned while on the other side, and continue to learn even today. Sorry my reply was so long, but I felt I needed to share that. Do you still hear the voice?

[ano1]

hereandback: I try and tell people that what happened to me was more 'real' than the 'real' here, they just look at me perplexed. How does one describe 'more real'? Even as I write this, I struggle with trying to find the words to paint an accurate picture of what I saw, felt and heard.

I know. Me too.

You must have had a very nice rapport with your mother-in-law.

I, too, experienced a collage type view of my life, clear images of things I had done, things that were not becoming. I experienced how the people I encountered felt about our interaction.

My nde was at a young age, as well. I was only fifteen and am now 59. The experience still affects me, it has shaped who I have become.
As for the voice ... I have experienced a 'voice' communicating with me, only twice. Once, when I was in danger - I was warned of a speeding semi-truck about to run a red light. Initially, I ignored the voice and it then repeated with much insistence: "Look further down the road". Because of the 'voice' I am alive today. (I would have been killed, instantly) 18 years later, I still, say thank you, when I cross that intersection. Another time, I was given a message to deliver to a friend. The message was: "Tell her, God's love is pure". That, voice persisted for 3 weeks, until I got up the nerve and gave the message to my friend. After I delivered the message, she told me that I was the fourth person to tell her the exact same thing.
I don't hear voices as a rule. I am very sane and normal. For fear of misunderstandings... I don't speak of these things in daily life. I don't know if the voice was the same as in my nde. I do know the communication was the same; thought to thought. But, the voice during my nde gave me so much information and I felt loved beyond comprehension. The voice here was very specific and singular in its message. But, really, both were about love.

[hereandback]

Hi Ano1,
With you still experiencing the voice during periods of your life, I firmly believe that once you touch the other side and come back, you are still connected to it somehow. It has physically imprinted itself “in” you. Like your example of the voice telling you that you were in danger, I believe that if you hadn't had your NDE that line of communication wouldn't have been available to caution you. I think my mother-in-law used me to "speak" to my wife. She and I had a good relationship, but in letting her daughter know that she was alright, I believe she used me because I was somehow more open to receiving her messages. I know it made my wife feel better.
Like you, I don’t share my experience with many people. There are some who just look at me with uncertainty, and chalk my experience up to brain activity gone “wild”, creating vivid hallucinations. I now know that I can’t always convince people what happened to me was real. It’s like telling someone how good a movie is, but until they experience it themselves, they just won’t know.
I was told once that people who use hallucinogens have reported NDEs. However, their experience is based on their mindset and environment. Meaning, if they are feeling bad then their experience will be bad. I was drowning. My environment was extremely unpleasant and I was physically uncomfortable, but my NDE was…beautiful, peaceful, enlightening, glorious, and the feeling of "I'm finally home"! Further, I try and point out hallucinations doesn’t necessarily change one’s outlook on life, and it certainly doesn’t erase one’s fear of death (which is common among those who have an NDE). In the last few years, I’ve watched my mother-in-law and grandmother die from cancer. I felt sorry for them that they had to go through such an experience, but I was a bit jealous, because I knew what was waiting for them. Hopefully that doesn’t sound too morbid? I think people who haven’t had an NDE won’t understand that statement. Some may think it’s my ticket to the psych ward! But so might hearing a voice (lol).
What did you learn from your NDE?

[ano1]

hereandback: I firmly believe that once you touch the other side and come back, you are still connected to it somehow.

I'm certain of that. I always feel still connected, some days stronger than others, but it is always part of me.

I think my mother-in-law used me to "speak" to my wife. She and I had a good relationship, but in letting her daughter know that she was alright, I believe she used me because I was somehow more open to receiving her messages. I know it made my wife feel better.

I agree.
I, too felt connected to my mother-in-law. Upon her death, a year and half ago, I awakend at 3:03 a.m. to the sense that she had come by to say goodbye. Soon, a call came to say she did indeed pass, she was found by the staff of her nursing home at 3:04 a.m. (As dementia set in, I was often the only person she trusted, I liked being able to comfort her when no one else could.)

... I felt sorry for them that they had to go through such an experience, but I was a bit jealous, because I knew what was waiting for them. Hopefully that doesn’t sound too morbid? I think people who haven’t had an NDE won’t understand that statement.

You don't sound morbid to me. I understand perfectly. In fact, I'm sure that I have made similar statements here. :-)

What did you learn from your NDE?

I learned that love is the most important thing.
In this world, the things that bring me the most joy, are non-material. Things such as: A shared smile. A gentle touch. A sleeping baby. A genuine conversation, where people can truly be themselves with one another. A sunrise. A sunset. Raindrops. Seeing ones breath on a cold morning. Fresh glistening snow, the kind that causes the earth to be insulated and quiet. A wink. A farmer harvesting wheat. An eagle floating overhead. The beautiful changing sky. A good tennis game. A walk. Laughter with family and or friends. Anything in nature, etc.

[hereandback]

The things you learned from your NDE are amazing, very descriptive! I too have come to appreciate the little things. I find that the world we live in is so filled with material distractions, that we lose focus on what is really important, especially in Western society. People are so busy going from A to B that they miss what’s happening in the space between the two letters. It’s that space that usually captures my intrigue. Since my NDE, I’ve been fascinated with the concept of time.
When I was drowning, I remember telling myself that I was tired. As soon as I thought that, my environment changed. I was still under the water, but it was “different”. My second thought was my surprise at not needing to breathe, while submerged. I didn’t feel hot or cold. There was no earthly noise, but sound was all around me. From the start of my NDE to the end, it felt like 10 to 15 minutes (I find it strange that on the other side, I felt no sense of time, but yet, I am still able to gauge it with the time I’m familiar with here). A bystander said I was under the water for less than a minute. The impression I got was that I was in a place between here and forever, like I was driving in the middle lane of a three lane highway (again, my words fall short of properly describing what I experienced). So much happened in less than a minute, but yet, each part of my experience holds a lifetime of questions.

[ano1]

I fully get everything you have said.

I was intrigued with the time thing too, not so much anymore, as I just know that I am unable to understand it on this side. There, time did not exist. Here, I think we need it.

I have learned to accept many things. Like, when I allow myself to get too caught up with current events; the news, politics, politicians, unfairness, our US companies moving out of our country to make bigger profits, instead of employing our own citizens; the evil of our world that is sensationalized and reported 95% more than the good things that happen.
I find this stuff to be extremely frustrating... so much so, that lately, I purposely go days without watching the news. All the negativity seems to be increasing. And, the news no longer is simply reported, it has to be an ongoing saga, 24 hours a day. I feel disturbed and out of sync when I see too much. Then, I step back and remind myself that it's okay. 'God has this'. It's not mine to fix or condone. I need to just be in my space and make my corner of the world better and more loving and accepting. I try every day to be a positive person. I look for good. In this crazy world, that is not always easy. But, I find it's what I need to continue to strive for. After all... I know that it will all work out in the end.

Your description of your near drowning is so well written that I can envision myself there. Very powerful and life changing.

Early in my nde, I too, felt as if I was both here and there; then I was just there. In that transition place I had a life review, it was the only uncomfortable part of the experience... because I felt bad about some of my actions. Also, in the transition place I could look down at myself and the environment surrounding me. I could see my dad breathing for me, the maple tree nearby. Strangely, I could also see inside my house as if there was no roof. Beyond that, I could look or see anything anywhere, including other places as if they were close by, even though in another state entirely. Pretty cool stuff. But, not something easily explained to anyone. I had my experience before the term nde existed. I learned not to talk about it and kept it to myself for many years. Luckily those days are gone.

[Garry]

being that this is discussion on TIME....

Its time to go to bed......

Goodnight all